Although the goal of this message is not to report on that meeting, we do need to note a few points:
Timeline
Running meeting(25/02/2021)
DM meeting - Workshop preparation - collective remarks and minutes Participants 15
The purpose of this meeting is to prepare the DM workshop forseen in April 2021: Workshop goals LM presents the goal of the meeting. Preparation of meeting on data models on VO and how to improve consensus on data modeling generation. Some DMs work well but disagreements on how to match models with scientific quantities. Proposal to solve mapping problems is MANGO, developed by LM Also, proposal from Tom D. to organize a workshop on how to solve this gap Proposed process to prepare the workshop Gather a list of concrete use cases and possible solutions Gather contributions
The dm-usecases repository These use cases is created compiling some VO historical use cases that require data modeling Two folders per use case, raw_data with an annotated xml and another folder with a mango proposal fulfilling the use case Time line for contribution to the use cases repository is during March to allow the pull requests merging of all the contributions poll created on use cases portal: https://github.com/ivoa/dm-usecases/wiki/poll FB: Procedure is to create a branch and ask for a pull request to be merged by LM? yes, either for commenting existing or creating a new use case TM: Lack of consensus are, in my view, due to the level of implementation of the solutions LM: I contacted Mark T. about using data models in Topcat and the problem comes from heteregeneous data modeling annotations in VOTables FG: It is difficult to decide whether to implement before having an idea of the work required to implement This means that the point has to be central to the workshop using the use cases MD: Will implement. If it works for VizieR, it will work for him. TM: Use case for proper motion representation? LM: Yes, in astrometry Mark CD: Orbital models not present, a new use case is needed MD: Not clear if we need models for quantities as this could be solved just with UCDs FB: UCDs are standalone, DM informs about quantities. MD: physics: UCDs, use DM to annotate GL: Mango enables to link two different quantities together, no need to have a specific model for each case. Workshop conduct virtual / in person ? Proposal and decision for a Date
SESSION #2
DM meeting - Workshop preparation - collective remarks and minutes - Second session Participants 8: Laurent Michel, Mireille Louys, Gregory Dubois-Felsmann, Jesus Salgado, Francois Bonnarel, Gerard Lemson, Tom Donaldson, Mark Allen, Harry Enke LM presents objective of propossed workshop and historical background poll created on use cases portal: https://github.com/ivoa/dm-usecases/wiki/poll Use cases page proposed: https://github.com/ivoa/dm-usecases GL: Is there a DM behind all the MANGO annotations? LM: totally free Changes to be done in another branch (to be merged with trunk after review) If a specific model is proposed , a new directory should be inserted Same if a new mapping strategy is proposed | |||||||||||||
Changed: | |||||||||||||
< < | Running meeting(17/05/2021) | ||||||||||||
> > | |||||||||||||
Added: | |||||||||||||
> > | Pre-interop meeting(17/05/2021) | ||||||||||||
Participants 17 Gerard Lemson, Janet Evans, Mark Cresitello-Ditmar, Tom Donaldson, Laurent Michel, Mark Allen, Francous Bonnarel, Ian Evans, Jean-Mark, Jesus Salgado, Gilles Landais, Jean-Michel Glorian Markus Demleitner, Vicenzo Galluzzi, Stefania Amodeo, Hendrik Heinl, Eric Buchlin This session will allow interested participants to evaluate our proposals with regard to the services they are operating or may need to build in the future. The meeting is OPEN to everyone. One thing we are trying to do though is target scientists/implementors who may consider volunteering to relate their experiences at the Interop Workshop. We envision presenting feedback on the use-case work completed so far, or presenting a vision of where a more mature version of the use case could end up someday. Agenda
Proposals Mark Cresitello Dittmar p (17+3’)
| |||||||||||||
Changed: | |||||||||||||
< < | Laurent Michel (17+3’) | ||||||||||||
> > | Laurent Michel (17+3’) | ||||||||||||
Changed: | |||||||||||||
< < | François Bonnarel (8+2’) Minutes: Introduction by LM: - Objective on how to use data models into VO and technical ways to share and to implement interoperability using DMs - Use cases: Display Plot Filtering X-Match Data Sharing ... | ||||||||||||
> > | François Bonnarel (8+2’) Minutes: Introduction by LM: - Objective on how to use data models into VO and technical ways to share and to implement interoperability using DMs - Use cases: Display Plot Filtering X-Match Data Sharing ... | ||||||||||||
VODML Overview (Gerard Lemson):
| |||||||||||||
Changed: | |||||||||||||
< < | Proposals Mark Cresitello Dittmar Packages: Jovial, Rama (both specific for VO DMs developed mainly by Omar Laurino) and Astropy, MatPlotLib GL: Code to use annotation MCD: Jovial Markus Demleitner | ||||||||||||
> > | Proposals Mark Cresitello Dittmar Packages: Jovial, Rama (both specific for VO DMs developed mainly by Omar Laurino) and Astropy, MatPlotLib GL: Code to use annotation MCD: Jovial Markus Demleitner | ||||||||||||
Laurent Michel
| |||||||||||||
Changed: | |||||||||||||
< < | F. Bonnarel | ||||||||||||
> > | F. Bonnarel | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Changed: | |||||||||||||
< < | Wrap-up | ||||||||||||
> > | Wrap-up | ||||||||||||
Q/A
Chat dump
| |||||||||||||
Added: | |||||||||||||
> > | Interop SessionsSession #1 Wednesday May 26 15h UTC Model users have the floor floor Participants 53 Laurent Michel Introduction - Explanation of data model benefits for interoperability - Presentation of data model use cases repository created by the team with examples of mapping techniques - Presentation of goals of workshop Jesus Salgado Data Models: Homogeneous view for heterogeneous data High level, why are we creating data models in the IVOA? - combining data from different missions is difficult and prone to error - serialization o data is only partially standardized IVOA Architecture: - data models are a 'core' component, to be used by multiple aspects of IVOA standards Data Models - visual representation of data elements and relations between them - assist data discover, database design, data documentation and interoperability Photometry example: - everyone uses magnitudes - magnitudes are relative measurements; how do we compare between observatories? - Photometry model associates necessary metadata to properly interpret/compare/combine magnitude data "IVOA DM should be complex enough to allow scientific use cases but simple enough to..." No questions Jean Michel Glorian A developer's point of view on the use of models in the votable - Presentation of CASSIS and use of data models on it - Visualize and analyze electromagnetic spectra. Makes use of SAMP, SSAP, SLAP, TAP (with dataproduct=spectra) EPN-TAP - From the data model point of view: Spectrum, Spectral Line, Spectral Data Cube, Image, Time Series - utype is not enough. Some metadata is not present - annotation could be used to fully characterize the spectrum (spectral axes, error spectral axes,...) - Pointing to the client, link between different columns: flux value-> error flux value, flux value->normalized flux value - In favour of mapping block preamble without breaking VOTable - Also, a library for consuming this preamble would be very useful (e.g. java, python) Questions: LM: A point missing also is the library for sever side MCD: UCDs versus Data models for physics of the meassurements? JMG: based on a fixed table. Sometimes the UCD is not enough and it is difficult to identify when it is really a problem Matthias Fuessling Science case requirement for CTA - Description of use of data models on CTA - CTA covers gamma-ray with two telescopes arrays (La Palma and Chile) - from sub-TeV to multi-TeV - Also different coordination centers across Europe - Open observatory run by proposals - Requirement to follow FAIR protocols and support VO - PB/year, only reduced data to the user (PB/year) - Different data levels: R0, R1, DL0-DL6 (DL6, skymaps, spectra, light curves, phaseograms) - DL3 are event-list and technical tables, and it is one of the scientific products level - DL3 in line with the Open Gamma-ray Astro Data Format (OGADF) - OGADF will evolve in lines with science needs - H.E.S.S. format already have been released via VO - Also, CTA is part of the multi messengers initiatives, in ASTERICS, ESCAPE, connected to VO events, what would need also metadata to be characterized Questions: LM: Meaning of data VO complaint difficult to define MCD: Comparison of Cube DM with gamma-ray data MF: Not sure if this comparison has been done for CTA. All data is usually cubes so we will take a look into it Catherin Boisson: Small test done with high level data (no exactly the same than X-Ray). Plans to do a deeper study François Bonnarel Mango YAML serialisation - Description of used cases - VizieR use case: Photometry of 3 main belt asteroids - Metadata from asteroids, fundamental metadata join with aspects shown - Also, photometric measurements and positions relative to Earth and Sun - Exercise to map all these table and characterize metadata using MANGO - Generic MANGO elements used and Mango extension for TimeSeries created - Serialization in YAML format with MANGO view - FB showing and explaining the YAML file content GDF: Origin of times (zero point) (Use of TIMESYS?) FB: Taken from coordinates for the time (one single float value). Time system defined at the beginning MCD: In the data models, a zero point for time is defined. JD and MJD are defined into the data model (class names) | ||||||||||||
|