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- Attendees :
- Mark Cresitello-Dittmar, Mathieu Servillat, Catherine Boisson, Francois Bonnarel, Raffaelle D'Abrusco, Ian Evans, Janet Evans, Matthias Fuessling, Tess Jaffe, Bruno Khelifi, Mireille Louys, Jutta Schinabel, Fabian Schussler
- Regrets :
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- JE: Group meet in a month - send doodle poll for a mtg in 1 month (Oct 19 @13:00 was a possibility; Oct 11 bad)
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- CTAO prepare a presentation /discussion on IRF data and how it relates
- IE: Prepare a presentation on ARF & RMF and how it relates
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- CTAO prepare a presentation /discussion on Instrument Response Function (IRF) data and how it relates to the event data.
- IE: Prepare a presentation on ARF & RMF and how it relates
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- DM project leads: Make an event list & supporting products available to the group to review; try to map that data to the Cube model using the Chandra example Mark presented
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- Mark CD: FOllow up with a group or 2 to review their data and model - offer input and also take in possible changes to current cube thinking
- Matheiu: What makes an event list unique ?? Let's try to answer that at the next mtg
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- Mark CD: Follow up with a group or 2 to review their data and model - offer input and also take in possible changes to current cube thinking
- Mathieu: What makes an event list unique? ie: What content should users expect to exist in an Event List instance? Let's try to answer that at the next mtg
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- All: Plan for side meeting at the next interop in Nov - hybrid
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(Annotated in Bold with meeting notes after session)
- MCD presentation of the IVOA Dataset & Cube model and as an example, the Chandra event list mapping to the model
- Q&A Highlights: Good discussion and participation overall
- General discussion that the model can map to specific event lists for each project - let's try the exercise and see if we're missing something??
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- Variable size bins?? - yes
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- BK: event lists containing time, energy, direction
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- BK: why a separation of Image and SparseCube?
- MCD: They are structurally different, NDImage contains pixel axes, while the SparseCube is a collection of Points. They both share the same DataAxis elements in the model, so interaction/combination should be possible. We will need to see the example.
- Variable size bins?? - yes
- FB: it may be possible to describe a DataProduct with some sparse and some binned axes as a SparseCube with a DataAxis of NDImage type.
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- Discussion on DataSet (header info) & xxx (the Data itself) & use of those terms in the model
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- Discussion on Dataset (header info) & DataProduct (the Data itself) & use of those terms in the model
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- MCD: there are somewhat contradictory statements in the current model which stem from conflating the concept of Dataset as a modeled object and the serialization of that object.
- Dataset is only the metadata
- a dataset may be a single file (eg: Image, Spectrum), or a tar file or directory containing multiple files
- MS: at CTA, the DataProduct is considered to contain both the metadata, and data.
- This topic can be discussed more, perhaps in the DM group with a goal to find concensus on names and relations between 3 objects
- The collection of metadata: currently Dataset
- The structural definition of the data: currently DataProduct
- The container holding both: currently not modeled.
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- Discussion on Supporting products and how they fit in (IRF, ARF, RMF) - examples for next mtg
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- Raised Question - what makes an event list unique?? - further discussion for next mtg
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- BK: we need to include the instrument response function, it is very important to the interpretation of the event list
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- IE: described how Chandra uses a rather simple IRF and performs the conversion from PHA to Energy during processing, storing energy as a static column.
- MCD: possibly can use Transform
- IE: asserted that the process for the conversion is rather complex, and further requires Spectra.. so may not be well suited for Transform.
- TJ: notes that HEASAR standards for Spectra require a 'channel' axis.. is this supported
- IE: the Chandra pha/pi columns are equivalent to channel
- BK: for them, the relation between IRF and is much looser.. may be 1-1 with an event list or 1-* (or *-1 ?.. I (MCD) don't remember what was said exactly).
- TJ: question if the model has been compared against the OGIP standard in full
- MCD: work to date has focused on the Chandra event list example, no formal comparison against the OGIP standard has been made.
- post-meeting side note: if we map an OGIP standard to the Cube model, then any implementation which understands an OGIP compliant serialization is a Cube model implementation.
- MS: Raised Question - What are the key Measurements expected in High Energy Event Lists? eg: Time, Position, Energy
- further discussion for next mtg
- MCD: Raised Question - Do our various event lists include errors?
- BK: have optional error elements
- JS: neutrino data has positional errors usually, sometimes energy
- Other questions/topics raised in the presentation not yet discussed.
- we need to refine modeling of non-measurement types of data from example products (eg: quality bits)
- do we need to model the concept of 'data subspace'.. for Chandra, the GTIs are a component of this concept as are any REGION filters applied to the event list.
- do we need to support virtual data in version 1?
- this was not discussed, but the content of the general discussion leads me to believe that this is needed.
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