UtypeTigerTeamMinTel8 < IVOA

IVOA Web>WebPreferences>UtypesTigerTeam>UtypeTigerTeamMinTel8 (2013-01-29, GerardLemson) (raw view)
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Minutes telecon 8, 2013-01-29

Minutes by Gerard<br />Attendants: MD, ML, OL, MG, GL, JS, PF, PD<br /><br />Agenda:<br />GL Have produced a draft of adoc aiming to describe how VO-DML can be serialized in VOTable and annotated with<br /> utypes to show how VO-DML instances are stoeed. MD has read and thinks too scary to send around in current form.<br /> MD and GL will meet this Friday and discuss. Also with goal to evaluate with the more traditional <br /> path-like approach. This could be derived form the more explicit one (using GROUP hierarchies etc). <br />MG exec wants progress report, so time pressure.<br />MD we'll have something pretty after this friday. <br />GL want to be as explicit is possible, but can (and must) be simplified.<br />MD we need something like this.<br />MD we may want to discuss issue "what are utypes"<br /> "pointer into data model"?<br /> utypes point into data model instances<br />GL more as a path<br />MD indeed to be need more precise, a "pointer to a role" <br />  for what MD needs ot do with utypes, needs role identifiers<br /> if only points to type, would need also role.<br />OL have issues here (3)<br /> 1. need description of data models, need meta model (= VO-DML)<br />  need a working draft VO-DML meta-model.<br /> 2. how to serialise instances (GL+MD work on)<br /> 3. need verify current data models, so that we have a consistent way of describing them.<br /> GL Do you mean we need refactoring of existing data models?<br /> JD it is not the task of this effort to refactor<br /> MG no, should not do that<br /> OL what are we going to describe then?<br /> MG (missed this) should NOT force code rewriting due to refactoring.<br /> GL Not intended. Can we try to interpret existing DMs + utypes so that the concepts remain preserved?<br /> MD can do this eventually, migrate dm-s<br />  But can we save the existing utype-s ?<br /> GL may only need to attributes-of-attributes<br /> OL Yes. (I think)<br /> MD Prefer "role identifier" interpretation. <br />  A single thing in VO-DML, but multiple roles: target.position.ra, image.position.ra<br /> GL This is what "my" approach also alows, but requires GROUPing. May be flattened.<br />  Should have agreement by Friday <br /> MD who thinks they know what we are talking about?<br /> OL agree with MD<br /> ML need utype-s to talk to tiniest parts of data model.<br />  need to talk to attributes-to-attributes<br /> GL May need to work out explicit mapping to see what simplification we might make and what restrictions<br />  we might put on them.<br /><br />ML how about photometry data model.<br />  any one have a serialisation?<br /> GL was only an interpretation<br /> JS will try to put real data in VO-DML version of photometry and evaluate it.<br /><br />MD existing usages doc is ok!?<br /> MG should be out by end of the week.<br /> MD what does tht mea, Note?<br /> MG yes! is a deliverable. exec wants it.<br /> MD MD should be in (for technical help with Paul Harrrison thing), ask for feedback of group.<br /> MG next week is still ok.<br /> OL how to build HTML from usages doc<br /> MD can be made simpler. ant? upload some jar into volute?<br /> <br />JS who will be in ESAC this week to discuss photdm maybe?<br /> MD yes.<br /> ML no.<br /><br />ML when can we deliver tiger team expertise to whole IVOA?<br /> MG need to have more definite results. Say WD of doc<br /> ML don't wait too long.<br /> MG cannot wait too long, must deliver May 12.<br /> JS schedule for draft?<br /> MG set it up in Dec.<br /> MD we would come up with first draft with utypes doc and VO-DML, after that go to DM WG.<br />  Should have time enough.<br /> OL am working at prototypes. would like to show at interop.<br />  seem to be working on details now. need to write them down.<br />  succesful solution should be almost trivial.<br />  utypes are opaque strings, description in VO-DML.<br />  value in prototypes.<br /> JS need a plan for draft. need to divide work. make skeleton of doc.<br /> <br />OL meet next week?<br /> ML ok, like to see on photdm validation in VO-DML with JS.<br /> JS can work on it.<br /> OL can we hope to have a skeleton + agreement.<br /> MD sure, but may need 2 weeks for next telecon.<br /> OL next week, then 2 with different actions.<br /> GL next week on VO-DML, <br /> OL 2 weeks from now discuss writeup on votable+utypes (MD+GL).<br /> JS next week on VO-DML in photdm
Topic revision: r1 - 2013-01-29 - GerardLemson
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