IVOA TCG F2F Mtg - Sun, 12 May 2019 @10:30am local time - Salle du Conseil _(Updated with Mtg note - May 29 - JE)

last edit - May 29 - JE

  • May 08 - Seeded mtg page - JE
  • May 09 - Continue to work details
  • May 11 - added topics - PD
  • May 12- added spreadsheet
  • May 29 - Updated (in italics) with meeting notes/actions - JE
  • Jun 25 - Updated ACTION-F0419-1 to DONE (based on May16 email from MM)


  • Mark CD, Kai, Theresa, Chenzhou, Pierre, Brian, Carlos, Markus, Raffaele, Tim, Bruno, Henrik, Christophe, Mark A, Marco,Tom, Dave M, Ada, Babtiste, Mireille, Mark T, Pierre, Steve, Pat, Janet, Giuliano

Agenda/Mtg Notes

  • Review Actions (List below) - Updated based on meeting review
  • Document review
  • IVOA Architecture Document
  • TCG topics
    • Provenance model difficulties
      • Discussed at meeting; Model compromise (Nov2018) and document update; decided to meet during IVOA week to resolve with concensus
    • main page links to a roadmap landing page: who updates this?
      • Doc coordinator updates landing page
  • WG/IG Status/Issues
    • See Summary Spreadsheet in Attachments below
    • See WG/IG status below
  • AOB
    • General workflow of TCG and projects.. migrating to mode of multi-group development of specific science priorities, with tight iteration and short-term goals/deliverables (Transform, Source Properties, TimeSeries)


Document Submission Logs (since last Interop)

datedocument idversioninitiatori/w groupaction
1.1 Markus Demleitner Note published
New Actions:
  • NONE
Previous Actions:
    • ACTION-F0419-1: MM - Access technical setup of UCD maintenance doc. DONE (5/16)
    • ACTION-T0219-5: PD/JE - kick off the Architecture doc effort effort and distribute tasks to team - WORKING
    • ACTION-F0518-4: MCD - Produce documentation on how the models relate and how to get started with certain use cases. WORKING
    • ACTION-T2019 -6: PD/JE: Ask DOC to transfer links to new Publishing on the VO doc when time is right - OPEN
  • DONE
    • ACTION-F0518-8: DM/PD - Prototype hosting a document standard and issue tracking in GitHub
    • ACTOIN-F0419-2: JE - Add Review of Provenance at TCG Interop face to face meeting
    • ACTION-F0419-3 ML - Send TCG page or links to Provenanance Goals and Use Cases for F2F prep
    • ACTION-F0419-4 JE - Add Data Collections Note to TCG agenda for Paris F2F, 10 minutes
    • ACTION-F0518-3: FG - Ensure that the important IVOA standards are in the RDA registry of standards (Note added 11/18 - DCP?/Registry?). CLOSE


WG/Apps (TD/RD)



  • Errata
    • SODA-1.0 Erratum 1: ID parameter UCD update
      • discussed and reviewed within DAL WG, ready for TCG review
  • SLAP-2.0
    • minor changes following SSLDM-2.0, following DM roadmap
  • ObsLocTAP, ObjVisSAP
      • at 0.4/0.5 WD revision, progressing
    • report and first impementatons at this Interop
  • Prov{TAP|SAP}
    • (pending DM document)
    • -TAP protocol will be reported in DM
    • -SAP slow progress (email report)
  • DataLink-1.1
    • revision active on mailing list
    • discussion is among authors, internal draft
    • splinter foreseen during this Interop
  • DALI-1.2
    • features/changes unchanged from College Park
    • overview at this Interop
    • involves ADQL needed geometry features
  • ADQL-2.1
    • seems unchanged from last Interop
    • PEG grammar seems to be developing fast
  • TAP-1.1
    • authentication-aware capabilities dominate discussion
    • otherwise clean and ready
    • see issues
  • TAP-1.1
    • potential REC has to be checked against proper implementations
  • ADQL (future)
    • alert from the editor about available resources to continue on


  • Errata:
    • 2 STC-1.33 Errata; approved in last telecon
      • migrated records on Errata page
      • added to REC landing page
    • ObsCore-1.1
      • Erratum 2; approved pending typo fixes == Done; ready to close
      • Erratum 1; inconcistencies in text being worked (Q: from MarkT on dataproduct_type|subtype changed)
  • Coords:
    • Delivered to WG and doc repository (Mar 21)
    • Vocabularies installed to semantics workspace.. Semantics group working discussion/review of content with TDIG/SSIG
    • Generated schema file; and working updates to test example suite.
    • 3rd party serializations updated/expanded to newest content (jovial on gitlab).
  • Transform:
    • Delivered to WG and doc repository (Apr 23)
    • Generated schema file; and working updates to test example suite.
    • Group working on implementation thread (via annotated YAML using AST and gWCS)
  • Meas:
    • Delivered to WG (May 1); not to doc repository (wanted to see if any major issues first)
    • Working updates to test example suite
    • 3rd party serializations (jovial) to be done asap.
  • Prov:
    • New document has been prepared from RFC comments
    • Has had significant iteration within the author list about content details
    • Do not have full author agreement to release; appears to not be converging
      • Already have splinter meetings scheduled to work this in person
    • Q: Authors request going back as PR rather than WD; want to clarify criteria for deciding.
  • SSDL-2.0
    • WG response to Feb. drop has been quiet.
    • VO-DML validation has been done, and delivered to volute
      • Q: were there changes involved to the model in doing this?
    • ready for PR/RFC?
  • Time Domain
    • promised new Mapping serializations of all their example files; STILL NOT DONE (resource issue)
  • PhotDMv1-1
    • at least one pass at producing a vo-dml compliant version of the model has been made and reviewed
    • was based on prototype conversion done earlier, and incorporates import of non-rec models (Spectral-2.0)

  • The Provenance model situation (again/still).


  • No errata outstanding
  • Not as many requests for GWS contributions as usual for this interop.
  • Group Membership Service - A third working draft has been published and contents will be presented during the GWS session. The next aspect of GMS that needs work is how to reference users within and between institutes. This will probably be another small GWS document.
  • Science Platforms - Many groups are building science platforms using similar approaches and technologies. Haven't had any proposals or seen opportunities for standardization yet, but the work GWS is doing on authentication and authorization is going to be critical for platform interoperability. The key to standardization will be prototypes.
  • Clients (eg TOPCAT) and services (eg TAP) are looking at using reusable tokens for authorization. This means:
    • There will probably be a new version of IVOA Single-Sign-On Profile (SSO 2.1) coming soon as we look at using reusable tokens for authorization. It is already mentioned but the wording could be more clear. Also, a few small errors have been spotted.
    • There may be a new version of Credential Delegation Protocol that allows for tokens to be delegated.
    • We'll need to describe the method of obtaining tokens that can be used for some set (a 'realm') of services. This will tie into the User Identiy standard mentioned in the Group Membership Service.
  • VO Support Interfaces (VOSI) best practices endorsed note: Preliminary notes taken by Tom McGlynn but no further progress.


  • XML Schema Versioning - The conflict with the 'version' attribute: Working with Paul Harrison and Markus Demleitner to get an updated version out very soon. Looking at softening the language around how to version instance XML documents so that the standards themselves can choose the attribute to use to indicate the standard version.

WG/Registry (ThD/PLS)


  • Errata:
    • VOResource 1.1 Re-enable multiple security methods per interface
      • Tentative, re-review
    • VOResource 1.1 # in identifiers
      • content-complete, needs doc process
    • RegTAP 1.0 Case insensitivity in an example query against res_details
      • In TCG/done
  • RegTAP 1.1
    • Ready for RFC (end of interop)
  • VODataService 1.2:
    • Work ongoing re: MOCs in the Registry, to be presented
  • Discovering Data Collections (Note)
    • In TCG/done
  • VOEventRegExt:
    • Major rewrite in progress, in TDIG
  • Operations & RofR Validation:
    • validator itself reviewed
    • # errata or other solution still required
    • OAI and Resource validation progress. Euro-VO validates entirely!


  • Standards in RDA:
    • Is this ours or DCP?
  • RofR and Validation:
    • # in identifiers or other solution required

WG/Semantics (ML/MD)


Publishing vocabularies

some of them have been uploaded on ivoa.net/rdf/

  • some with draft status need revision discussion
  • New strategy proposed by Markus Demleitner

Maintenance for UCDs RFC

Last tcg comments during PR Review brought the point for a correct page naming for the Request For Modification (RFM) wiki pages

  • To be solved with the help of Marco Molinaro for the ivoa wiki
  • Corrections to apply to the document
Telescope and Instrument Repository

Data Model for metadata are modeled following PDS4 Information data model (the Instrumental description part)

A prototype for a Tap service developed at CDS with Gilles Landais (Vizier), and Emmanuelle Perret ( Documentalist)

Vocabularies for Theory
  • on the way to be published at ivoa.net/rdf
  • problems to solve to find a way for theory applications to still use their vocabulary from this ivoa repository

Discussion needed this week

IG/Data Curation & Preservation (AS/TJ)


IG/Education (CC/HH)



  • ongoing discussion on how to provide implicit and/or explorative data access:
    • annotating structure in projected spaces and providing classifications based on this
    • web prototype to do these operations / select, annotate, transfer, outlier
  • discussing on how to preserve uncertainties delivered by machine learning analysis:
    • database storage
    • preserving uncertainties throughout queries
    • how to deal with reproducibility / storing training data
  • discussing code to the data:
    • still ongoing experiments / downloading all the data is not a solution
  • is the VO a digital plate archive or an observatory? (Single Source Science only) machine learning analysis is building telescopes for a virtual observatory
    • tables are great but how to do data-science on images/spectra/cubes/time-series?
    • are platforms a solution? how do we standardize those
    • next steps? deliver some toy use cases to see how we can solve those

IG/Ops (TM/MT)


IG/Solar System (BC/SJ)


IG/Theory (CR)



  • Time Series related topics:
    • Dependancies of the Time Series model are in good shape
      • Meas and Coords -- comments for Coords already given and some more to be discussed.
      • Cube model
      • PhotDMv1-1 in the process of being DMLized
      • Characterisation - still to be DMLized
    • A proposal for a TIMESYS element in VOTable:
      • Worked with Apps and is now implemented in VOTable1.4
      • There are both services and clients providing and working with TIMESYS (perhaps a limited use for the moment, but this will evolve)
    • After TMOCs we now have STMOC which connects coverages in space and space (a Note will be distributed within this interop).
    • In the todo list: work towards the extension of ObsCore for time. Fields have already been identified.
  • VOEvents related topics:
    • Need to take community feedback into account.
    • Baptiste is now editor of the VOEvent document who translated the document to LaTex.
  • TIMESYS: what do to when the refposition is TOPOCENTER (e.g. Earth versus satellite observatory).
  • VOEvents: how to describe and discover services and streams.
Topic attachments
I Attachment History Action Size Date Who Comment
PDFpdf TCG_ActiveStds.pdf r4 r3 r2 r1 manage 63.8 K 2019-05-30 - 16:15 JanetEvans  
Unknown file formatxlsx TCG_ActiveStds.xlsx r4 r3 r2 r1 manage 13.1 K 2019-05-30 - 16:15 JanetEvans  
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Topic revision: r27 - 2021-04-13 - GiuliaIafrate
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